I wonder why some people are so embarrassed about revealing that they went to fat camp once upon a time. As if it’s something about which to even be ashamed. It’s says so much about our society and fears. It’s something I can’t understand hiding about yourself.
I think saying it here somehow makes it less bad, if that makes any sense.
A rose is a rose is a rose. And bad is bad is bad. The difference is that now you're not only a parent, but have the maturity to see the possible tragic consequences of such a lie.
We have all done something like this, especially as teenagers. I think it's nearly impossible, at that age, to understand what could happen when things like that happen. Besides, in the end you did have good intentions for those girls.
How must it feel to be eight years old and have your parents send you away to fat camp…I don't know what would be worse, having them do it, or being that age and thinking you need it. And from the look of some of those girls…huh?
FROM STEPHANIE: I went to a fat doctor at eight years old. And I've become a bit suspect to the whole, "the key is prevention" advice. Because to really prevent a child from becoming overweight if they're genetically predisposed, you'd need to do so much. It's not simply being an excellent role model. Being active, healthy in the house, blah blah. It's not that simple. "It's never too early to learn good habits." Yeah, it is.
Your pic looks so much younger (but very cute) than the other kids and hard to think you'd need to go to fat camp. Odd…
There is a pic of you and who I assume to be your dad on your book cover where you look different than all the other pics…wondering why?
Almost done "Moose"?
The little girl in the light blue shirt and red shorts is striking – just really stands out as a beauty in training. You can tell from the bone structure in her face. Are these the girls that were at the Fat camp? Most don't appear to have weight problems at all.
i've been curious about this fat camp thing for a long time… until i read about it on your website, i didn't think it was real. maybe i'm naive but is it just an east coast thing? i grew up in portland, oregon and went to lots of camps when i was younger but don't remember ever hearing about fat camp. those pictures are so fun and bring back such fun memories of summer camps… those could so easily be me and my friends! fun memories for a boring monday!
FROM STEPHANIE: Ha! My counselor was from Oregon (and she pronounced it like ORGAN). They are popular on the east coast, but they're definitely also in California and elsewhere, especially now).
What a cute group of happy looking girls! When I was a kid, alot of the neighbourhood girls went to camp but I was too shy (if you can believe it!) Finally I got up the courage to go when I was 12 & I just loved it. The next year, all the girls felt that they were getting too old to go to camp, so I missed out. At least I had fun for 1 summer. Being shy & insecure really sucks.
I'm confused – are you in any of these pictures other than the one in your striped swimsuit? In the striped swimsuit pic, you are a completely healthy size for your age! Do you have any before and after pics from fat camp you could post? How much weight did you lose?
FROM STEPHANIE: Yes, that's when I was a normal weight for my age. As for how much I lost and before and after photos, etc. All that will be in MOOSE.
You were seriously adorable as a kid.
That said, I'd be pissed as hell to find my child's photo on a website that talks about vajayjays et al as much as you do. Please tell me you have permission from those children's parents.
FROM STEPHANIE: Those children are now on myspace and facebook posting photos of their own vajayjays… well, nearly. And it's awesome reconnecting with them.
I'm very curious: what do you think it says about a person who chose to go to fat camp even once she lost weight? At one point I needed to lose weight. I was obese in medical terms. And once I'd lost weight and become normal or even thin/normal, what does it say about my choosing to go back? And mind you, it was not the same camp each summer… so out goes the theory of just wanting to be with those same friends or that particular camp and its traditions.
Obsessed with being thin? I think it's far more interesting than that but wonder what others think.
From someone with an eating disorder (who has never actually been overweight, but has felt overweight for most of her life) I think it's a simple matter of insecurity and wanting to feel superior (and don't take that the wrong way – I don't mean it as an insult). As absurd as it sounds now, there were times in my life I would have to leave the mall because the mannequins were making me feel fat (and I was a size 2). Even though I consider myself "recovered", a person's weight relative to my own is still the first thing I notice about them. Not to sound cliche but these food issues run deep. Losing weight does not equal "cured". Granted my issues are different from just being predisposed to be overweight, but I think a lot of the results are the same. After spending the first half of your life feeling fat and unattractive, the attention you must have gotten being the skinny girl at fat camp must have been flattering.
Please, please tell me all of the beautiful little girls in your pics weren't in fat camp with you.
If those girls needed fat camp, then eight-year-old me should've been locked in a shed with nothing but fat-burning cabbage soup and Alli.
How sad.
Well, speaking from someone who has worked like hell for a year to lose 50 lbs., with the support of an on-line message board, weekly weigh-ins, etc., I can say that I keep coming back because of a couple of things: 1) validation that the struggle to lose/keep off weight is hard, and I'm not alone and 2) maybe to scare myself from going back there. If I keep tabs on the people who are in the hardest part of losing weight (the realization that you must, the traumatic changing of all the habits that got you there in the first place, etc), I'm less likely to go back to heavy? Maybe?
One of the hardest things I find in parenting daughters is NOT judging them on their weight, and not putting unrealistic expectations upon them, but providing the best healthy foods and good examples that I can. I know that they'll decide one day that it's time to slim down – I did, my mom did, my sister did. Of course, I'm the only one in a slim place now. Weight ebbs and flows in my family like a huge vat of whipping cream on a roller coaster.
FROM STEPHANIE: THAT is awesome! Seriously, good for you. 50 lbs. is very impressive, and of course, the most impressive bit being keeping it off.
Now when you say, "to scare myself from going back there"…imagine "there" was a camp, where you could see these people who had 50 lbs. and oftentimes a whole lot more than that to lose. So you're basically saying, I'm here because I don't want to look like you. Or perhaps another way of saying it, "I don't like the way I look when I weigh what you do, and you're a nice reminder of the struggle I went through, just to avoid fitting into the jeans you're in." I know that sounds mean and you'd never say it, and when I say "you" I don't mean you 3 teens.'
Basically, it's saying, I hate fat. I don't want to be fat. I never want to go there again, and the possibility that it can happen scares me.
It's probably that along with, "we've all got problems and know how hard this is, and everyone understands here." But if they, the heaviest, saw you all trim, would they resent your being there? Even if you were once their size?
I'm pretty sure I've never lied about anything that would affect the life and safety of another. Usually, mine are pretty tame, I guess. I guess I'm just bad at it.
I would think you kept going back because you were afraid of ever being fat again and never really considered yourself thin because you were too used to thinking of yourself as fat. Who knows, maybe approval or something even played into it. In the end, it really does not matter what any of us think – only what you think.
FROM STEPHANIE: I agree, only what I think matters… but, I'm hoping people will settle a bet for me. Because I believe one thing, and someone else feels very differently about it. So I'm just curious what others think.
So, was it perhaps that it was so pounded into your head (figuratively) that you were overweight that even when you lost the weight you still saw an overweight child? If it had been your deepest insecurity, than it would make sense that you would want to be around children with the same mindset, even after you were thin. Maybe you found an acceptance there at camp that was not available at home. It seems from reading your book and your blog everyday for years that you had a lot of pressure to be thin. I would think that Fat Camp would be a two edged sword, a place of acceptance and a taunt that you are viewed differently. I can only imagine the impact that made on your life.
You were so cute!
As for the pic on the cover of your dad and another red head – thats Lea right? And she is…how do I say this…a little heavier than you? (I'm a size 12 so that is no way judgemental or being snarky, just to clarify) Did she go to camp as well? I saw from previous posts that she struggles with her weight now/ somewhat in the near past. Its interesting how that plays out in siblings. My sister is about 125 and our obsession has led her to being thin while mine has made me more, ahem, accepting of my curves. haha
For why you went back- I think its a combo of being obessed with weight and being thin in general. And a little feeling of "I conquered this and now I want to help others do the same" Mixed with a little "I conquered this and look at me, learn from me, but while you're learning make sure you're looking at me 'cause I look damn good, thin and all"
A little smug, maybe, a little ego boost to be around all the chubsters again but your heart was in the right place, no?
All of that is just my humble opinion, of course
Whose idea was it for you to go to fat camp in the first place – you or your mother?
And if it was your mother, did it bother you that she thought you were fat enough to need a camp and didn't just accept you the way you were?
I think I would be very bothered if my mother sent me to fat camp, implying that I was "less than" and needed to change. I do think that's probably where your obsession with being thin comes from – your mother.
And being "obese in medical terms" often isn't really obese at all – if that were the case, half the people most of us know would probably fit that description.
So, why DID you go back to camp every year?
Right from birth, my daughter, who's now 18, didn't seem to have an "off" button when it came to food. She'd happily suck back 8oz of formula at only a few days old. Because I didn't produce enough breast milk, these 'supplementary' bottles were part nutrition, part guilt. Yeesh.
Throughout her childhood the no-off-button issue became critical and her dad and I decided to intervene. We did all the lead-by-example things but she'd still go for that second/third piece of cake. So, we did what was necessary and started curtailing her food intake. It was an awful period for everyone. As much as we'd couch it in health terms, the message was "you're fat".
Over time, she learned to manage her intake on her own – in a healthy way, thank goodness – and she's stayed at a good weight for 10 years. The scars, however, remain.
As a parent, it's a tough issue to deal with. I'm pretty sure my daughter would be obese today had we not interrupted her natural leanings at an early age. But at what cost?
This has little to do with what you wrote – just some info. The saying is actually "eat your cake and have it too" It's just been remembered incorrectly and used incorrectly forever. Think about it you can have your cake and eat it too, but you can't eat your cake and still have it.
FROM STEPHANIE: Huh? I'm pretty sure it makes sense either way.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Have_one's_cake_and_eat_it_too
What I'm surprised about is that they let you into these various "fat" camps, when you weren't. I would have thought they would have had medical guidelines, etc. that determines who gets to go.
As far as why I think you went back–because you won; and because it was probably a nice escape from your 'regular' life where you didn't stand out and weren't as lauded for your accomplishments (getting and staying thin). In the "real world" those things are just expected of you.
Yikes. As a former camp counselor/swim instructor/etc. who was (and is no longer) certified lifeguard/WSI/CPR/etc., this freaked me out. When I was a camp counselor and oversaw the pool & lake, my camp directors required that I give them copies of my certifications well in advance of my working there. Call me overprotective… but when I send my kids to camp I will certainly make sure that the camp keeps proof of certification on file. I loved being at camp, but the most important thing was always the kids' safety… it's a heavy feeling to know that parents entrust their kids to you. I'm surprised that you didn't seem to feel that. Love that you wanted to do extra for the kids, but after seeing what a lot of idiots do around water… touches a nerve for me.
FROM STEPHANIE: Uh, as it should. I was not the regular lifeguard. I'm sure the camp did have certificates for all the people who actually worked at the pool. I was a 17-year-old counselor, not even in college yet, and honestly didn't think it was such a heavy responsibility. I just didn't think "bad things" could happen at camp… again, it wasn't smart of me. Wasn't all that smart of them to just take my word for it… but, if I'm them, I'm thinking… "who'd lie about that?"
I actually don't think there's much to your question, or that mulling over this is very interesting. You were obsessed with being thin. You were afraid of getting fat again. You never developed a healthy relationship with either food or body image. So you thought the only way to keep the situation under control was by actually going to a place where your obsessions would be nurtured and encouraged. I actually think the way you talk about food now is disturbing — in such obsessive, semi-pornographic terms. Don't you want to move away from such extremes?
Why did you keep going back? I can't tell you that. Only you really know.
Here's the answer for me; I was one of the skinnier people at fat camp. I lost most of my weight young at fat camp and kept the majority of it off. I'd probably yo-yo the same 20-30 lbs during the year and if I dropped said 20-30 lbs during the summer, I looked "normal". Whatever "normal" might be.
As soon as I arrived every summer, I felt good about myself. I rarely felt good about myself at home.
At fat camp I was better looking, I was funnier, I was smarter, I was the me I wished I could be from Sept-June every year. I talked to girls I never would have flirted with at home. I even hooked up with them. I fucking danced with them.
At sports, I was like Derek Jeter meets Tom Brady there. I had good athletic ability and played high school sports at home, but at fat camp I was one of the best athletes in the joint. I hit dramatic home runs. The fact that I could catch a football and then run with it made me stand out.
It was Bizarro world for me. At home I was in the middle of the pack at best.
It was a great ego boost spending every summer surrounded by people who knew my pain, yet I was ahead of.
It's fucked up if you think about it like that…but then it's not fucked up.
Being surrounded by people who dealt with the same self loathing I did was incredible for me. It gave me strength.
Kids at home didn't open up to one another about how fat made them feel. I felt like an outcast at home.
At fat camp, I learned not to hate myself so much. I learned I wasn't alone. I learned that picking on a fat kid at fat camp was about the lowest fucking thing you could do.
I would constantly defend the kids in my division or cabin who were getting picked on. Being able to do that also empowered me. In a weird way, that was me defending the me at home.
I kept going back because there I was romantic, funny, strong, tough, proud, sensitive and most of all my true self that I had kept hidden from the world at home. My parents would look at the pictures I came home with every summer and not even recognize me. There was a different look in my eye.
Eventually, that true self came out and I grew into the person I thought I could only be behind the safe confines of fat camp.
As for you, maybe you also knew that at fat camp you were one of the best looking girls in the place. One of the best athletes. I mean, I'm sure you had no problems getting boyfriends at home, but at fat camp you were Nicole Kidman.
Maybe a little of that caused you to go back year after year?
To Ex Fat Camper:
Wonderful descriptions of your beautiful memories.
Ex Fat Camper:
wow. great comment. what you wrote really got to me. if you're not a writer, you need to be.
My most dangerous lie? From age 17 to 30, saying "Hey, guys, I can drive, let me drive us to the (movie) (bar) (etc)." Truth be told, I could not drive well, was terrified of driving, made some dangerous moves on the road and lived in fear of wrecking my car. The most dangerous lie of all, "Hey, guys, I only had a few drinks, I am not drunk, I am perfectly capable of driving home." And then I got in the car and drove home and did not kill myself or anyone else. Thank God those days are over.
The reason you went back to fat camp even after losing weight is the same reason I still go to Weight Watchers meetings even after becoming a lifetime member at goal. I'm 40 pounds down but I always go back at least once a month because I need the support of people who are in the same boat. Just because you lose weight doesn't mean that the struggle is over, and it doesn't mean that you still don't need support. Even if it was different people every summer, you could be with people who didn't know all of your bullshit and could look to you as a role model. That had to feel good. We all want validation for our successes in life.
Stephanie,
We go back, I think, because we spend so much time obsessing about 'the fat' … that we become 'the fat'. After a while it's not so much about Not Being Big as Not Being Me….
So even when the weight goes, we're still stuck with ourselves…and the habit of hating ourselves – and that's the thing we can't shake. That we keep trying to get rid of.
It's the whole 'skinny on the outside – still fat on the inside' thing isn't it? And we hate fat…wherever it sits.
When I lost weight, I had a hard time getting it through my head that I was thinner. When I see pictures of myself during that time, I cringe to remember how I thought of myself – I was a size 14 (down from a size 26) and absolutely felt like a WHALE. It's sad, though, because I was actually pretty cute and I had no idea.
So maybe something like that played into your returns to fat camp? Feeling deep down like this is someplace you really belong, that you don't really belong "out there" with the skinny people?
And I have to disagree with a poster above about the idea of "medical obesity" being obsolete. Lots of people would fit that definition because lots of people ARE medically obese. Has nothing to do with the relevence of the term or idea.
why were those gorgeous little girls in fat camp?
They're (maybe) a little chunky, but in a yummy, little kid kinda way.
Familiarity breeds comfort?
When I first read this post and saw those cute photos, I felt so sorry for those darling little girls (including you!) who were sent away by their parents for being too fat. But then I read your comment about choosing to go back. I do think that's very interesting. Will look forward to reading your book about it. I'm from the country and knew very few kids who went away to summer camp, so the whole idea seems a little foreign to me.
P.S. Out here on the West Coast we make fun of Easterners who pronounce Oregon "Or-e-GONE." It's not exactly ORGAN, but more like "OR-uh-gun."
rb said:
Out here on the West Coast we make fun of Easterners who pronounce Oregon "Or-e-GONE." It's not exactly ORGAN, but more like "OR-uh-gun."
Have lived on the East Coast all my life. Have never heard anyone pronounce it Or-e-GONE. Will however confess that as a child I was confused by the pronunciations of Kansas and Arkansas, constantly saying the latter as "Our Kansas".
It's very easy to say "oh, these girls are so cute, they don't get to go to fat camp". It's not easy to growing up overweight, having low self esteem, getting to high school where boys don't notice the nice, overweight girls and then on to the real world where as much as we don't want to admit it, looks matter not only in personal, but also in our professional lives. Why not have these girls confront the weight problem early on and learn healthy eating habits. It will only make their lives easier and will reduce the number of times they cry because they don't like what they see in the mirror. And yes, ideally they shouldn't care if they're overweight and someone out there will love them no matter what they look like, etc. But we all know ideal is often very far from reality and the happy ending from "Good in Bed" is not the reality for many overweight women.
well? so? did you win the bet? or did phil?
I think you went back every summer because it made you feel good to be the thin girl. Maybe you felt insecure and still felt like the fat girl during the school year, but at fat camp during the summer you got to be the hot thin girl.
None of this is a criticism — our concept of body image is developed so young. Someone convinced you at a very young age that you were "fat" and no matter how much weight you lose or how thin you become, somehow that "fat" girl is still there.
RB –
I hear you. I'm originally from the West and I notice that people in Chicago say Or-e-GONE. They also mispronounce Nevada and Colorado.
FROM STEPHANIE: When I was little I totally mispronounced Oregon and said, "Or-eh-gone" as if it were the cousin of octagon. Now I say, "Or-eh-gin" (that gin is not pronounced as if it's gin rummy, mind you). Mmm, gin.
I know that your point is that lying about something that could potentially result in harm to a child is terrible and that is true.
However, as a mom and pool owner, I can tell you that the reality is that statistically, it is rare that school aged kids who can swim, who are in a pool that is surrounded by a fence and are being carefully watched – by anyone – are not the ones who get hurt. In fact, I've read that up to 90 percent of drownings occur because of unsupervised kids wandering into pools – which could be prevented by proper fencing and locked gates.
That being said, when I send my kids to camp, I want them supervised by a certified lifeguard. But I'm just sayin'…
Welcome to parenthood. You will worry about something till the day you die.
To Ex Fat Camper:
Your experiences at camp were very compelling to read.I found it kind of sad that your parents didn't really know who you were while you were there. I've always believed that a kid should have at least one person in the world who adores and supports them. No matter what. Hopefully, it's a parent. I believed this even before I became a parent (probably why I only had one). I've tried to be aware of who my child is at all stages, not a 'buddy' necessarily, because I think that creates a whole other, messy boundary issue, but aware and respectful of the individual my child is becoming.
The tween years are especially self conscious and hard in countless ways, whether weight is a factor or not.
I'm glad that you found your sense of strength, acceptance and beauty at your camp. Some never find that in a lifetime.
So … does this mean you went back because you wanted to remind and scare yourself about being fat again?
Ex Fat Camper:
some of the most compelling writing i've read in a while.. and beautifully told.
thanks for sharing your experience